MINUTES 6 SEPTEMBER 2008 HELD AT THE MINISTRY OF FISHERIES OFFICE, 45 FILLEUL STREET, DUNEDIN

PRESENT

Nelson Cross                                         Ted Young
Warren Lewis                                        Alan Key
Gerald O’Rourke                                   Peter Moir (part meeting)
Bill Hartley                                             Chris Shuker
Ross Divett                                            Geoff Rowling
Tangi Russell (part meeting)                    Eleanor Russell (part meeting)
Rose Grindley                                        Tony Brett
Peter Todd (part meeting)                      Geoff Mullen (part meeting)
Murray Pridham                                     Sharon Buchanan

Appologies
Noel Parker, Pete Moir, Russ Chidgey, Warren Lewis (for early departure:3.00)

Mataitai (Minutes to be circulated to Tangi, Eleanor, Geoff)

Tangi Russell, Eleanor Russell and Geoff Mullen joined the group in discussion on the mätaitai proposal for Otago Harbour and to answer questions from the group. Tangi said the mätaitai was initially proposed for an area at the front of the marae, however, after consulting with the community, there was strong support to use the mätaitai tool to manage fisheries within all of the harbour.

Alan Key considered that mätaitai have a special and specific purpose and to try to expand the use of the tool to achieve outcomes which are beyond those for which the regulations intended might result in unintended difficulties in the future. Geoff Rowling considered that a specific local area management tool was required and that recreational fishers should lobby to have the mechanism included in the Fisheries Act.

It was concluded that both parties would continue to talk and keep each other up-dated as the proposal progressed.

HECTORS DOLPHIN

Discussion about the Minister’s decisions on the Hector’s dolphin Threat Management Plan surfaced throughout the day.

It was emphasied that the information acquired through consultation with stakeholders, including rec, was available in the Final Advice Paper to the Minister.

Some members wished specific questions to be answered. Answers are as follows:

Why has the set net ban been applied to areas where HDs are known not to occur?

There are known hotspots of Hector’s dolphin dotted along the east and south coast, and, by-and-large, the dolphins tend to remain faithful to those areas. Because of the isolation of these now small populations, they are prone to inbreeding and loss of genetic diversity. Some dolphins do travel further a field and, clearly, these are of significant importance to the long term viability of the Hector’s dolphin. Protecting only population hotspots means dolphins that occasionally travel between areas risk entanglement in set nets.

Protection of a continuous band of habitat is required to provide the best chance of sustaining Hector’s dolphin populations (maintaining or increasing numbers and genetic diversity).

How was the information supplied by recreational fishers presented and what emphasis was it given when compared to other information. Recreational fishers consider that the collective expertise, of what amounts to hundreds of years of real world experience and observation, is robust and honest, yet it appears to have been lost in translation? “We thought we were being heard, but it appears we haven’t been”.

Views from all submitters were summarised in the final advice paper to the Minister. The Minister said in his decision letter that he recognises there is uncertainty in information about the dolphins and the effect of fishing on the dolphins. However, he also said he believed there was sufficient information available to allow him make a determination whether new or additional measures are necessary. The Minister cannot use uncertainty in information as a rationale for failing to take measures he considers necessary to achieve the purpose of the Act

Why is $2 M being spent on research after the decision has been made?

No.

What representation did the recent research into Hector’s dolphin numbers in Te Waewae Bay receive in the presentations that were made to the Minister.

The final advice to the Minister said there was a published abundance estimate of 89, and another one, that isn’t published yet, which estimates about 403 dolphins. It did not say that one was right or that one was wrong, but that they are not comparable and do not represent an increase in numbers because they are very different types of surveys. Either way, the estimates still show that the population is not large, and that it is the second smallest in the country. Information on recent research is contained in FAP. Refer p3 and 8 of South Coast of the South Island section of FAP.

Up-dates

Nelson - Move regional updates handed to Sharon. They take up too much time, repetitive and if any issues arising from updates, these can be taken up at next meeting. Tony finds the updates informative but suggests a compromise – everyone to state points of interest or contentious issues in their respective areas.

REGIONAL UPDATES

Weather/Sea Conditions: See table.

Fish Species:

Rock lobster OK for those who got out. Blue cod fishing fair (again weather permitting). Fresh water from excessive rain has caused large amounts of paua to be washed up on beaches. No feedback on groper. A few small, healthy red cod about. No feedback on shellfish. Good numbers of butterfish (from those fishers trying to get in before set net ban comes in). Huge amount of seals on shore (seeking shelter from rough weather?).

Compliance:

Remaining concerns about pseudo commercial activity and also charter operators that are still providing crays to clients.

General Comment:

Te Korowai – had meetings to work out what issues need to be addressed and now working out how to go about dealing with these issues. Have also had meetings to sort out boundaries for setting (commercial didn’t agree with Ministry presented borders).

North Canterbury (Chris Shuker)

Weather: Mostly southerly, nor-east with very few nor-west days and a lot of rain.

Sea conditions: Huge seas, mainly a few flat days.

Fish Species:

Rock lobster – bucks seem scarce. Females still in berry. Both still in hard shell. Plenty of blue cod out at the hole and off Peninsula. Motunau fishing OK when tide and sea conditions allow. Winter season, no-one diving. Good catches of groper, limit bags on occasional days. Red cod are scarce. Plenty of shellfish around but sea conditions not good. Good to see large kahawai being caught at Pier along North Brighton. Bluefin tuna in good numbers of hoki at the-Grey trench. Should be good season for access up most rivers as large floods have cleaned out all Canterbury rivers.

Compliance Issues:

Been quiet.

General Comment:

Weather has stopped most fishing, most weekend weather has been bad. A lot of fishermen upset with decisions made by MFish. Seem to don’t want to consult.

Canterbury (Ross Divett)

Weather not been good. Few scallops from around the sounds, plentiful.

South Canterbury (Gerald O’Rourke)

Weather: Many weekends in a row with gale force winds from the south.

Sea conditions: Have been rubbish seas with up to 4 metre swells.

Fish Species:

Very few people going out North Rock fishing for blue cod, odd small bags being caught. Paua are still on the inshore reefs to the south of Timaru according to my source. He also said there are patches of stunted paua. No signs of red cod recovering yet. Heaps of mussels on the inshore reefs. To early for elephant fish and rig. Plenty of spiky dogfish in the Canterbury Bight. Whitebait in early season have seen poor catches. No Hectors dolphins around yet.

General Comment:

Very rough conditions for the last two months.

Otago (Ted Young/Warren Lewis)

Ted – Conditions not great, one group of four caught 68 BCO between them. And two or three groper too, still plenty of fish around.

Warren – weather not good, ruby fish been caught in Karitane canyon. One Rays breem, two hoki, couple bluenose and big trumpeter, big blue cod. Concern re quantity of crayfish being held in coff pots in Otago Harbour. Tony said Noel expressed the same concern. Coffing in Bluff Harbour has been a big issue in CRA8 too. Murray said the problem has been exacerbated this year as the processors are struggling to keep up. They are allowed to use holding pots.

South Otago (Nelson Cross)

Weather: Mild winter, lots of rain and very few frosts.

Sea conditions: Mainly moderate with two periods of severe easterly storms which have dramatically removed sand cover on the launching beaches. Mostly typical easterly conditions, one metre swells building to two-three metres in the afternoon. Moderate to heavy surf conditions.

Fish Species:

Spasmodic according to sea conditions and temperature. Average winter catches of blue cod, good pot catches on outer reefs. Good catches of school groper. No reported catches of shark, good catches of red cod. Good catches of trumpeter, especially around the Nuggets. Mussels and paua exceptionally good. Whitebait were running before official season but have not heard of any significant legal catches.

Compliance:

No reported problems.

Southland (Alan Key)

Alan Key said there are good reports of blue cod, snow on the water in Fiordland. Not much info from rec fishers, because of set net ban he didn’t want to bring up issues of fishing.

Discussion on charter boat operators guaranteeing getting a cray. Ted said if the fishery is still in good condition, why not let them carry on and do it. Also, recreational fishers selling paua shells. Law is that you can’t sell them, it’s illegal.

REPRESENTATIVES FOR NATIONAL FORUM

Two fishing reps wanted to attend the national recreational fishing forum to be held in Auckland – Ross Divett and Alan Key.

Topics – process and way processes run re hectors dolphin; transparency.

1. Local area management tool. Need to have this put into the Act? Because issues different in different areas, locals need control over local resource. Protection of local initiative to grow fishery.
2. Consultation time needs to be longer – right of redress. Non compliance of consultation process to the MFish Consultation Standard.

Topics for agenda at forum: Process and consultation; local area management tool (how do we get one into the Act).

MEETING WITH SOUTHERN SHELLFISH FISHERIES PLANNING GROUP

The committee joined the Southern Shellfish Fisheries Planning Group for discussion.

Mark Geytenbeek introduced the SSFP group – being commercial representatives from the surf clam fishery, kina fishery, paddle crab fishery and cockle fishery, customary fishers plus recreational representation.

The Shellfish group has yet to develop firm objectives for the recreational sector, but would welcome input from the advisory forum.

Representatives discussed involvement in the plan process and the need for a mechanism to allow “self-funded” recreational representatives to more easily participate in groups such as the shellfish plan. Further issues discussed included the susceptibility of shellfisheries to local depletion. There was an acknowledgement that shellfisheries need to be managed locally but this is difficult because of the size of QMAs. Recreational fishers emphasised their wish to see a local area management tool developed.

Members were generally supportive of fisheries plans, noting constructive interactions between stakeholders in other fisheries (for example Challenger Scallops). Committee members also noted there was no reason why recreational restrictions could not be different across different areas, however, any such proposal must be backed up by good research. The committee is very sensitive to restrictions at the present time as a consequence of the impacts on recreational access to fisheries from the measures taken to protect Hector’s dolphins.

Re Otago Harbour and dredging out the shipping channel and turning basin. While it has been estimated that as much as 10 000 tonnes of cockles may be affected by this development, this is an RMA and Regional Council issue not a MFish issue. What happens with all the cockles if they are taken out, would they be reseeded? Mark said a cockle focus group is being formed, and are meeting this Wednesday with the Harbour Board at the Ministry office.

BCO/BCO5

There is concern about aspects of the southern BCO fishery, especially in terms of transfer of effort along the Canterbury and North Otago coast lines, as well as growing concerns for the health of the BCO 5 fishery. Commercial fishers and BCO 5 quota holders have formed a BCO 5 working group with the idea of developing a BCO 5 commercial fisheries plan. This group has put forward a research project to the recreational research planning group to estimate recreational BCO 5 catch. Alan Key and Peter Moir attended a meeting as observers. The BCO 5 group would like to have a recreational rep on the group. Tony asked do you want a rep on the BCO 5 group? After discussion it was agreed that the BCO 5 group should report to the rec forum. “They should be coming to this group”. We need more information on our fisheries. Not nominating anyone at this stage.

Peter Todd discussed the BCO 5 working group research proposal. Recreational BCO fishers in Southland are not catching their daily bag limits. It was also put forward that, as CRA 8 was fishing well, commercial fishers were not fishing BCO, not worth the cost of fuel. Fuel prices are also affecting recreational fishers. Need to do a characterisation assessment.

The Ministry has put out a consultation document on charter boats, suggesting a two-tier reporting system in that all charter boats have to register with the Ministry and report on their fishing activity, where they fished, what species, what numbers, hours fished. Second tier for particular stocks, they will have to report catch, (numbers) and BCO 3,5 & 7 have been suggested as candidates in the consultation paper. Proposed to start to come into effect from June 2009. Ted asked what are the costs? Peter Todd said as far as he was aware just the cost of registration.

GUEST SPEAKER - GEOFF ROWLING

Recreational Representation

Essentially the message from Geoff was that the recreational sector needs to engage or the machinery of government will roll on without them and recreational fishers could find themselves even worse off. (if possible?)

The pressing issue is adequate representation. Need a new fully funded structure for the future, but at the moment there is little choice but to deal with the reality of the existing framework while trying to improve the structure into the future.

A new structure could possibly take the form of “spin offs” from forums; have a national forum or executive but its representatives come from the regional groups like this one. It may involve membership. Have someone at the top doing the day to day work supported by the regional expertise. A paid person is needed at regional level to make sure issues are followed up and tasks get done.

Set net issue

The Recreational Fishing Council has written to the Minister regarding the rationale behind the set net ban on west coast. We have also applied for copies of all the advice sent to the Minister under the Official Information Act (Keith Ingram to follow up). Ted wants information circulated once received by Geoff. NZRFC can put a case to Regulation Review Committee once all information is compiled from around the South Island. Want to be able to set net in areas where there is no threat to dolphins, ie, rocky areas where dolphins don’t go. Gerald asked if there would be any independent science? Geoff said there are a number of things needed to be done. Ted said there are more dolphins on this area of coast than there has ever been.

28 days before a regulation comes into force you are able to access information and the effectiveness of the proposed regulation. There is an on-going commitment from National Recreational Fishing Council as regards the set net issue.

Shared Fisheries Issue

Tripartite discussions under way (commercial, customary and recreational), only stakeholders involved, not MFish. There has been much debate about proportionality of access to fisheries, creates a road-block to going forward. Government is in a position where they can’t keep everyone happy. NZRFC have employed Kim Walshe on the working group. Ted asked where does Council stand with mätaitai – generally supportive.

Fisheries Plans

Recreational fishers need to join with the shellfish group, not oppose them. It’s the system that we have no confidence in. Make sure, as recreational fishers, you input into the shell fisheries plan.

MPA

Geoff is on the MPA process forum for the west coast. Geoff is concerned the process, as designed by the agencies, is not working well at present. The MPA process has been started on east coast. Rose said waiting for policy work on some classification standards then we’re ready to go. Geoff said if you’ve involved, demand the same kind of treatment as West Coast forum members receive, takes time to build trust and understanding, make sure you are represented and that your representatives are resourced.

Marlborough Sounds BCO

Chris’ club wants to put forward barbless hooks in the sounds area to protect the fish. Geoff said a lot of discussion about trying to regulate net size and barbless hooks essentially recognised it’s unworkable, not to say that a code of practice couldn’t be introduced.

CRA

It was asked how this group can have input into rock lobster decisions? How are we made aware of the issues in time. We need to find a way to discuss and gather information that allows informed input as an ongoing issue for the group. Geoff said that recreational input into the National Rock Lobster Management Group had improved over the last 18 months, but establishing local contacts was the next important step. The rec representatives on the NRLMG had sent correspondence out on CRA 7 issues, but receiving and co-ordinating responses had proved problematic. Tony to help build the list of people to whom Geoff can send info.

NEXT MEETING

29 November 2008