Meeting Notes: North Island-South East Regional Recreational Forum Sunday 31st August, 2008, Napier

Andy Warmbrunn (Chair - MFish)
Billy Brough (MFish)
Edward Beetham ( Wairarapa Sports Fishing Club)
Colin Murray ( Hawkes Bay Sports Fishing Club)
James Parahi ( Pania Surfcasting Club)
Jenny Hills (Mahia Boating Club)
George Zander ( Ngawi Sport Fishing Club)
Hilton Webb ( Gisborne/Tatapouri Sports Fishing Club)
Neville Buckley (MFish - Compliance)
Craig Petherick (MFish - Compliance)
Wayne Ormsby (MFish - Po u Hononga)
Sandra Mauger (MFish - Po u Takawaenga)
Robin Hape (MFish - Po u Takawaenga)

Wayne Bicknell ( Hawkes Bay Sports Fishing Club)
Alain Jorion (Gisborne/Tatapouri Sports Fishing Club)
Simon Mills (Gisborne/Tatapouri Sports Fishing Club)

Meeting Introduction

Item 1

Regional Updates

Hilton provided an update on the Gisborne area. Not a lot of fish have been caught recently and the weather has not been good for fishing with a lot of rain, and southerlies. Cray fishing had been average.

Edward commented that little fishing has occurred in the Akitio/Castle Point area due to bad weather. He noted that cray fishing has been as bad as last year, there are good amounts of small blue cod and tarakihi, snapper has been more plentiful than previous years, and the häpuku/bass continues to be very poor and of real concern. He added that a whale had been seen at Castle Point and was thought to be a sperm whale.

Edward informed the forum that the Akitio club was supporting a voluntary cut in crayfish catch numbers (from 6 to 4 per fisher) and was hoping to make a local press release on the matter.

James provided a surfcasting report and gave the forum figures from the last three events from the Pania surfcasters. On the 29th of June 20 anglers caught 32 fish (22 kahawai, 8 barracouta and 2 red cod) on 13th July 26 anglers caught 32 fish (21 kahawai, 8 red cod and 3 barracouta) and on 27th July only 1 red cod was caught. He also added that some fish have been caught at Ocean beach with more fish caught by rod than kontiki.

George provided an update on the Ngawi area. George noted that the weather and swell has been very rough. Very little fishing has occurred over the last couple of months and when fishers have been able to get out blue cod has been the main target species. He noted that it has not been worth cray fishing due to the poor numbers of fish and the club has agreed in principle to shelving 2 crayfish per fisher (from 6 to 4) until the 31st March, 2009. The club is also in the process of submitting with regards to the current Mataitai application in the area. George expressed his continued concern about the ever growing seal population in the area.

Jenny reported that not much fishing has occurred in the Mahia area. She noted commercial reports that crayfish in the area are losing their shells a month earlier than normal and that catches are not so good at the moment. She added that the dolphin at Mahia (Moko) is also causing some concern for fishers, following the boats out and being a nuisance.

Colin gave a report of the Napier region. He noted that not much fishing has occurred due to high seas and catches haven't been the best with cold water. The Hawkes Bay fishing club has agreed to a voluntary shelving of crayfish (6 to 4) and häpuku/bass (5 to 3) with the hope that customary will also agree to some voluntary reduction in catch.

Colin stated that häpuku were totally decimated in the area and expressed his concerns about commercial boats set netting of deep reefs around the Lachlan ridge and banks.

Andy thanked the forum members for their collective updates on fishing around the NISE area.

• Nil

Item 2

Compliance Updates

Craig gave an update on compliance issues in the Napier area. He noted that over the last months very little recreational fishing has been occurring and compliance has been focusing on the commercial sector, in particular looking at misreporting of catch issues. Craig observed that the commercial sector is experiencing decreases in income due to rising fuel prices and that port prices have not been increasing. He did note that there have been good catches of large flat fish by commercial gill net fishers in the area.

Craig informed the forum that MFish has recently been successful in prosecuting a good number of cases with the majority of offenders pleading guilty. Operation PAID is just beginning to see suspects enter the legal process and Craig noted that at the next meeting he would have more information about the outcome of the prosecutions.

He added that the compliance team now has 12 Honorary Fisheries Officers (HFO's). 5 in the Wairarapa area and 7 in the area between Waimarama and Waipatiki. Pre-season for training of the HFOs will be beginning over the next couple of months. Ed asked if it was possible to obtain a list of HFOs and their contact details in the Wairarapa area. Craig said he would be happy to provide the names of the HFOs, but noted it would be better for Ed to approach the HFOs about giving out all their contact details. Craig reinforced that HFOs give up their time voluntarily, and it is better for fishers to contact fisheries officers directly rather than HFOs.

Colin asked about the MFish perspective on marlin for sale. Colin's question related to an MFish paper title “Marlin for Sale ”. Colin said he had heard that commercial fishers were looking at catching Marlin beyond New Zealand 's EEZ and landing it for sale, and also looking at the possibility of selling Marl in caught within New Zealand waters as by-catch. Andy said he was unsure of any MFish paper on “Marlin for Sale ”, or if any discussion was occurring. Billy said he would check with the highly migratory species team in Auckland and report back to the forum.

Ed enquired about how close to shore trawlers can operate. Craig replied that unless there are regional commercial restrictions, trawlers could operate as close to shore as they wish.

Ed also asked about the status of the Paua accumulation limit proposal. Andy said he would find out the status of the proposal and report back to the forum.

Neville updated the forum on his new position as the non-commercial compliance manager, and that Tom Teneti is the new district compliance manager (DCM) for the Gisborne area. As part of his new role, Neville advised the forum he is the national manager for the HFO network and responsible for the Coast watch program, which is set to return to TV later this year.

Neville provided an overview of the recent Maui /Hectors dolphin fishing restrictions to the forum. The restrictions are set to come into force on 1 October 2008. Neville also updated the forum regarding scallops, and noted a discussion paper concerning guidelines to harvest scallops had received good feedback from fishery stakeholders.

• Craig to send Ed an email with HFO names.
• Billy to find out information concerning catch and sale of Marlin within and outside the EEZ and report back to the forum [Action completed - reported back to the forum via email]
• Andy to find out the status of the Paua accumulation limits proposal information and report back to the forum.

Item 3

Surf Clam update

Andy read out an email from Lianos Triantafillos concerning the surf clam research that has been occurring in FMA 2 (mainly Napier and Gisborne) since early June. Andy relayed to members that Surfco had found good numbers of surf clams at three of the beaches surveyed and that Surfco is currently conducting a biomass survey in each of these three beaches.

One beach is north of Mahia and the other two beaches are in Hawke's Bay. A biomass survey should be finished in a week. It looks like there are good numbers of three species. These are Paphies Donacina (<4m), Mactra discors (3-5 m) and Donacina anus (>5m).

• Nil

Item 4

Customary fishing and tools

Wayne Ormsby, Robin Hape and Sandra Mauger gave a presentation to the forum on customary fishing and customary tools.

Wayne began the presentation with an historical overview of customary fishing, customary fishing rights and relevant legislation in New Zealand.

Robin and Sandra gave an in-depth presentation to the forum on the use and history of customary fishing tools. The use of mätaitai reserves, taiapure and section 186a closures were covered in the presentation and examples of each tool were provided to the forum (ie, Moremore mätaitai reserve, Porangahau taiapure etc). The roles and responsibilities of tangata kaitiaki were covered in some detail by Sandra and Robin. Neville explained to the forum about the customary reporting requirements.

The forum asked Wayne , Robin and Sandra a variety of questions in relation to customary fishing and the use of customary tools and their management.

The remainder of the session was used by the forum to ask general questions to Robin, Sandra and Neville. The forum found this part of the session valuable for correcting misconceptions, particularly in relation to compliance aspects of customary fishing.

Following the discussion, the forum members thought it would be useful to meet with Te Kupenga Whiturauroa a Maui forum to discuss the voluntary reduction of daily bag limits for crayfish and häpuku/bass.

• Billy to talk with Wayne Ormsby to arrange a time and place for the NISE recreational forum NISE and Te Kupenga Whiturauroa a Maui to meet.
• Billy to contact forum members with details of any meeting [Action completed – Ed emailed forum outcome of discussion with Tom Paku]
• Wayne , Sandra and Robin agreed to include their presentations as attachments to the minutes.

Item 5

Aims and Objectives of the NISE forum

Ed circulated a paper he had written on what he felt were the aims and objectives of the NISE forum. The paper was well received by the forum and several of the concepts were discussed in some detail. The forum agreed it would be good to have an overarching objective, and to be able to vote on key items to achieve consensus.

The forum members felt the following issues from Ed's paper should be discussed further at the next meeting:

• Electing a chairperson
• Standing orders including resolutions of NIS E forum and processes to be used when there is not a unanimous vote
• Press releases

• Billy to include an agenda item on the next meeting to elect a chairperson and discuss standing orders for the forum and press releases

Item 6

Local Area Management

• Nil

Item 7a

Area 2 Finfish Fisheries Plan

• The location of FMA 2
• The fisheries plan approach
• What will fisheries plans achieve
• How are fisheries plans developed (including the key steps)
• The basic composition of an advisory group
• The finfish species included in the Area 2 finfish fisheries plan
• What to expect from the Area 2 finfish fisheries plan
• What not to expect from the Area 2 finfish fisheries plan
• Next steps and expected start date

The process for selecting the 22 species of finfish in the plan was discussed. Billy explained other species of finfish would continue to be monitored. If any other finfish species needed to be included in the plan, this could occur at a later date. The key message was the list of 22 finfish species was not fixed.

Wayne asked if representatives for the recreational sector would come from the forums, or would MFish consider other recreational fishers? Andy explained the make up of the advisory group was flexible and that MFish could look beyond the forums if it needed to. Billy added fisheries plans are MFish led processes, and MFish want to make sure the right people from each sector were sitting around the table.

Ed, Hilton and George asked if 18 months was a realistic timeframe for completing the plan, given that the CRA 3 plan was still not resolved after 3 years. Billy believed 18 months was a realistic timeframe to complete the plan, but did note there were no completed mixed finfish fisheries plans from around the country to provide a useful comparison of time taken. Billy added the CRA 3 plan was stakeholder led, which may have contributed to the time taken to complete the plan.

Colin said the presentation given to the Guardians of Hawke Bay meeting by Billy had raised some interesting questions, such as the size of FMA 2, and the ability of MFish to find representatives to cover such a large area. Billy used the forum members as an example of where one person is able to represent a large number of people through established networks such as fishing clubs, recreational forums and national agencies (ie, NZBGFC and NZRFC etc).

The forum asked for Billy's presentation to be available in hard copy in the minutes.

• Billy to include his presentation as an attachment to the minutes.

Item 7b

CRA 3 update

Hilton reported to forum members on the CRA3 fish plan and his experiences and opinions of the process.

He noted the CRA 3 process was ongoing, had seen three Ministers of Fisheries and still no action had occurred. He was very concerned the voting structure of the CRA3 group did not give much chance to the recreational sector to promote its goals.

Hilton said the recreational sector were not given the opportunity to read out their statement at the last CRA3 meeting and were stopped by the independent facilitator. He believed this was the main reason why the recreational sector refused to sign off on the plan. He said that the recreational sector was accused of walking out on the forum, whereas Hilton said it was the other members that walked out at the final meeting.

He expressed concern over the differences in research being carried out by MFish and the Department of Conservation (DoC) on rock lobster in CRA 3. He was disappointed and frustrated the two most important issues to the recreational sector of abolishing the concession and commercial free areas, were not included in the plan. He noted the elected recreational representatives had not been informed of a recent meeting, and were not being updated as to the current status of their position within the group.

Hilton ended his report by asking the forum to support a vote of no-confidence in the CRA 3 process, and to not support any CRA 3 plan that might be approved by the Minister.

Billy suggested it would be difficult for the forum members to stand behind a vote of no-confidence. Billy explained this was because none of the forum members, with the exception of Hilton and Alain, were privy to all the discussions and attended all the CRA 3 meetings; they were therefore hearing only one set of views on the process. However, Billy explained the decision was completely in the hands of the forum. After discussing Hilton's request, the forum members concluded they could not support a vote of no-confidence.

The forum discussed the CRA 3 rock lobster concession. Neville explained the history behind the concession MLS for CRA 3 rock lobster to the forum members. George felt the playing field was not level, and recreational fishers did not have the same chance to take legal sized crayfish with the concession available to commercial fishers. Jenny suggested the concession MLS should apply to all sectors? Billy thought Jenny's suggestion had been discussed by the CRA 3 forum, and asked Hilton if this was the case. Hilton said the forum had not discussed amending the MLS to reflect the existing concession, but had discussed removing the concession in detail.

Billy asked Hilton if the ‘concession-problem' had concerned recreational fishers during the late 1990's when crayfish had been more abundant in Gisborne. Hilton confirmed it was less of an issue when crayfish were abundant. Billy suggested the real issue might be the abundance of crayfish, as opposed to the concession. Hilton disagreed and reaffirmed the concession needed to be removed to give recreational fishers a fair chance of catching crayfish. Andy asked if the draft CRA 3 plan included a management tool to increase abundance? Hilton confirmed that it did, as everyone had agreed to this.

After some discussion on the draft CRA 3 plan and the rock lobster concession, the forum members concluded their discussions by agreeing in their view:

All crayfish Minimum Legal Sizes in New Zealand should be the same, regardless of which sector is catching them.

Billy also replied to a number of the other issues and comments raised by Hilton. He noted the draft CRA 3 fisheries plan sets out what the fishery stakeholders want to achieve in the long term, and how these aspirations will be achieved through a range of different management strategies. In terms of the voting system, Billy said his understanding was all the objectives and management strategies had to be agreed to by all sectors, as per the groups agreed Terms of Reference. Therefore anything not agreed to by the parties was not included in the draft plan, however he understood the two recreational strategies would be included as part of a covering letter to the Minister. Hilton confirmed this was also his understanding, however he did not find this acceptable as it did not give recreational fishers what they wanted.

Billy said to the forum that he was not present at the CRA 3 meeting, but asked Hilton if the other sectors had walked out of the meeting during Alain's statement, why had they done this? Billy asked if the content of Alain's statement had offended some of parties? Hilton replied the statement contained the same information as he had just supplied to the forum.

Billy and Andy said they were not familiar with the research being carried out by DoC. Billy asked if this research was specific to the marine reserve or did it cover the whole of CRA 3. Hilton replied the research was both inside and outside of the marine reserve.

Andy thanked Hilton for his report on the draft CRA 3 plan.

• Nil

Item 7c

Review of HBP decision and process

Andy gave a brief wrap up of the häpuku/bass decision and process. The forum members agreed the process had been a steep learning curve, but they were now better prepared to deal with any future recreational management problem.

The forum members did express concerns that the paper had included both FMA 2 and 8, when they were only concerned about häpuku on the East Coast. Andy explained that FMA 8 was included in the Initial Position Paper (IPP), because FMA 2 and 8 comprise the Central Fisheries Management Area (CFMA) and as a starting point, it was important to include both areas. Billy added that anecdotal reports were also received from the NISW forum of similar problems with catch rates and smaller sized fish being landed.

Billy explained the Minister had the discretion to consider just FMA 2 had there been widespread agreement over the problem, its cause and a workable solution from recreational fishers in FMA 2. Andy added the submissions from the East Coast area, including the forum, did not provide this agreement, and this was the principle reason why the Minister made his decision to retain the status quo option. Billy and Andy both remarked the inclusion of FMA 8 did not water down the IPP.

Andy recapped the overall process and said he thought the forum could draw some positives from it. Andy noted MFish had listened to the concerns of the forum and other recreational fishers, and had acted by developing an IPP. Andy ended by saying the forum had had an impact directly into developing the IPP, including the options that were looked at.

Ed and Wayne said that although the outcome of the IPP had been disappointing, the forum members had learnt a number of lessons. Jenny said the problem had not gone away and would need to be addressed again.

Ed asked if all the submitters had been sent a copy of the Ministers decision. Billy said he was certain MFish had sent out a copy of the decision to all submitters, but would check to make sure this had occurred.

• Billy to check submitters were sent a copy of the Ministers decision on the HPB paper.

Item 9a

Local fishing club observers at meetings

Andy also raised an opportunity Simon had emailed to him. Simon thought it would be good idea to invite local fishing clubs to provide one or two members to attend forum meetings when they were held in their area. Simon believed this would help fishing clubs get a better understanding of what the forum does and listen to the items that were being discussed.

The forum members agreed this would be a good idea and may encourage new people to want to participate in the forum. As the next forum meeting was to be held in Gisborne, Hilton said he would try to bring along one or two club members to observe the next meeting.

• Hilton to try and bring along one or two club members to observe next meeting in Gisborne

Item 9b

Email alerts for other forum minutes being posted

• Andy to contact the MFish IT department to see if it is possible to set up email alert system for when other forum minutes are posted on the MFish website.

Item 9d

National meeting of recreational forums

Andy informed the forum that the National Meeting of Regional Recreational fishing forums was being held again this year in Auckland in November. The forum voted on the following topics:

Top 3 national problems

• Recreational Fishing Rights;
• Monitoring of Recreational Catch and how it can be improved; and
• Use of set nets on offshore reefs – including ‘ghost fishing'.

• Hapuku/Bass decline in FMA 2;
• Local Area Management – needing a say in our area; and
• Gurnard Minimum Legal Size – too small (should be at least 35mm).

• Richard Burch – New and innovative trawl net designs being trialed for inshore trawling;
• Guest presenter – How recreational harvest is monitored in Australia (without licensing or registration of fishers); and
• Frank Prokop – How West Australia has dealt with illegal take of crayfish.

The forum voted Ed and Colin as their representatives at the national forum.

The forum thought that workshops were a good idea at the national meeting. However Colin thought the group should not be split into smaller workshops, as the meeting should involve all the representatives.

• Billy to inform the national meeting coordinators of the forums representatives, and the top 3 national and local issues.

Andy thanked the forum for their time and wished everybody a safe journey back to their homes.

Andy told the forum he had transferred to the Auckland MFish office and Billy Brough would be taking over his role as facilitator. Andy thanked the forum members for their time and effort over the past year, and said he thought the forum had achieved a lot in a short time. Ed thanked Andy for his work on behalf of the forum.

The meeting was closed at 5.45 pm.